One Knight in Product

Protecting Vulnerable Users by Designing for Safety (with Eva PenzeyMoog, author ”Design for Safety”)

Trigger warning: Please be aware that this episode contains references to domestic abuse
An interview with Eva PenzeyMoog. Eva is a designer and former volunteer rape crisis counselor, who wants to encourage us all to consider the harm that we may be inadvertently causing through our product design decisions. She's the author of new book "Design for Safety" as well as the founder of the Inclusive Safety Project.
We speak about a lot, including:
The core message of her new book, Design for Safety, and some of the surprising feedback she has gotten so far
Whether there has been any negative feedback for the book from people who don't want to admit that there is any problem at all
How difficult it was to research the book, the importance of validating survivors of abuse and ensuring they can share on their terms
Some of the most common low-hanging fruit that people should look at in their products to start making them safer for users
Whether responsibility for the harm caused by products belongs to the teams building them or the company leaders reaping the rewards
How product teams can do a safety audit and start to bake safety into their ongoing product design processes
How to help product design teams get into the habit of sensitively interviewing the right people to understand the safety implications of their products
Whether there's any hope for big tech firms to self-regulate or whether governmental regulation is the only way
And much more!
Buy Design for Safety
"'How will our product hurt people?' As web workers, we don’t often ask this question—but we should. Too often, we design for idealized circumstances, even though our users bring a range of complicated personal dynamics to every interaction. When we fail to explicitly design for vulnerable users, we unintentionally prioritize their abusers. Eva PenzeyMoog explains how even the most well-intentioned design can be weaponized for interpersonal harm. Through poignant, all-too-common examples, Eva demonstrates how to identify a design’s potential for abuse, how to avoid and mitigate the damage, and how to bake safety into every step of the design process. We can’t build good digital products unless we recognize that our users’ safety, and lives, are at stake."
 
Visit the book website for more info.
If you need further resources on safety
If you want to learn more about some of the issues raised in this episode or in the book, Eva has curated a list of resources for designing for safety & related topics.
Contact Eva
You can find Eva at The Inclusive Safety Project or Twitter

Creating Sustainable Products with Conscious Design (with Ian Peterman, co-author ”Conscious Design”)

An interview with Ian Peterman. Ian is the CEO at Peterman Design Firm, where he aims to help design more sustainable & ethical products. He's also trying to bring this thinking to the world with his podcast and new book, both called Conscious Design. He's also created the Peterman Method, aiming to put a process around the principles and ensure we leave legacies we can be proud of.
We speak about a lot, including:
The goals behind Peterman Design Firm, the problems they solve & why they lean towards physical products
How being a very ethically focused company impacts the types of clients they attract and whether they have to turn anyone down
The importance of enabling companies to take baby steps rather than limiting your impact by only focusing on companies that want to go all in
Why he & his wife decided to write the Conscious Design book, and how their different professional backgrounds contributed to the thinking inside it
What Conscious Design is, and how the four pillars of Conscious Design enable us to assess the environmental & social impact of our products
The Peterman Method that he created and how it enables Conscious Design by putting a process on top of the pillars
Why it's important for companies to be conscious of the legacy the they create for their product, their brand and the impact they have on the world
And much more!
 
Buy Conscious Design
"If you are building products and brands with regeneration and sustainability in mind, we appreciate you! We hope this book will give you some ideas on how to implement Conscious Design by using the Peterman Method with your own project."
 
Visit the book website for more info.
Listen to the Conscious Design podcast
If you have any time after listening to all of my episodes, why not try out Conscious Design Podcast and find out more about Ian's work?
Contact Ian
You can find Ian on Peterman Design Firm or LinkedIn

Digital Pollution & The Product Hippocratic Oath (with Radhika Dutt, author ”Radical Product Thinking”)

An interview with Radhika Dutt. Radhika is a product leader, consultant & author of "Radical Product Thinking". I spoke to Radhika a couple of months ago about some of the core themes of her book but we wanted to deep dive into some of her themes around digital pollution, product ethics, and how to take responsibility for the changes our products bring to the world.
We speak about a lot, including:
The reception for Radical Product Thinking, what people are taking from the book, and how it's resonated with people around the world
How polarising it was to include a section on digital ethics in the book, and how a Silicon Valley heavyweight refused to write a foreward because of it
The types of digital pollution, how they manifest themselves, what to look for in your own products and how it's not just about Big Tech
How the free market "prisoners' dilemma" means that companies prioritise profit over all else and some of the ways we might persuade people to move to more ethical jobs
Whether it's ok for tech companies to paint themselves as dumb pipes with no responsibility for the effects of their platforms
Whether there's any hope to get companies to do the right thing, or whether the only answer is aggressive regulation to get companies to take this seriously
The importance of the Product Hippocratic Oath and how we as product people need to take responsibility for the effects of our products
And much more!
Buy Radical Product Thinking
 
"Iteration rules product development, but it isn't enough to produce dramatic results. This book champions Radical Product Thinking, a systematic methodology for building visionary, game-changing products."
 
Visit the book website or check it out on Amazon or Goodreads.
Listen to Radhika's last episode
We covered some of the broader themes from Radhika's book in our first episode Episode 82 - Curing Product Diseases with a Radical Product Vision.
Contact Radhika
You can find Radhika on Twitter or LinkedIn

Building the Future of Automated Crypto Trading with the DDDT Process (with Gabriele Musella, CEO @ Coinrule)

An interview with Gabriele Musella. Gabriele is the CEO of Coinrule, a YCombinator backed startup that aims to democratise crypto trading and enable people to set up their own automations to manage their investments for them. He's also created the DDDT framework to drive product decision-making and bring design thinking to the crypto space.
We speak about a lot, including:
The idea behind Coinrule, the rise of automated crypto trading and whether automated trading is as high pressure as it looks in the movies
Why being unregulated was a great way to build a trading startup and what the future might look like for crypto regulation
Whether Coinrule is actually using blockchain technology itself, and whether this would have any benefit for them as a company
How much of a crypto-fundamentalist he is, how he sees the space developing, and how blockchain energy usage chimes with his eco awareness
His experience with YCombinator, what he got out of the process apart from money, and how he learned to "prioritise like hell"
How Coinrule build products, the DDDT process he created and how it allows the company to Discover, Define, Design and Test products
How they talk to at least 100 users a month and built a culture of user research, and what it's like doing user research with such a passionate community
His mentorship work with Google Launchpad and how he's aiming to help early stage startups understand how to do UX better
And much more!
Contact Gabriele
You can contact Gabriele on Twitter or coinrule.com.

Helping Companies Scale by Automating (almost) Everything (with Daniel Cooper, founder @ Lolly Co)

An interview with Daniel Cooper. Daniel is an automation nerd and founder of Lolly Co, a company that aims to help founders of growing companies unlock growth through automation and enabling them to focus human effort on things that humans are best at. He's also the author of the upcoming book "Upgrade" that aims to bring these techniques to the world.
We speak about a lot, including:
The story behind Lolly Co, the problems they solve, and why process optimisation & automation is crucial for a scaling business
The similarities between their consultative work and good product discovery. The importance of focusing on the goal, not the technology
The importance of getting in early, working with founders, and enabling them to break through their growth ceiling to scale
Why it's important to have processes, but not too much process, to make sure you can operate effectively
The reason that he's doing this via consultancy rather than building a self-serve SaaS platform
How the No Code craze has affected his work, whether his clients still need him or are actually prepared to build everything themselves
His new book "Upgrade", coming out imminently, which aims to take some of the principles from his work to the masses
And much more!
Check out Upgrade
"Like me, if you run a business then one thing is for sure - you're spinning a lot of plates. But, what if I could show you how to automate them and scale the number you can spin? Together let's put your business under the microscope and explore the strategies and techniques traditionally reserved for Silicon Valley and apply them to your business."
 
Visit the book website.
Contact Daniel
You can contact Daniel on Twitter or check out his company at Lolly Co.

Selling Product Thinking by Influencing Companies at the Right Time (with Anthony Marter, product consultant & chair @ Product Aotearoa)

An interview with Anthony Marter. Anthony is a product & delivery consultant who is passionate about helping New Zealand companies build products more effectively by intercepting them at the right time to deliver change. He's taken his passion for the local product community into Product Aotearoa, a community aiming to support product practices across New Zealand.
We speak about a lot, including:
How he aims to use his consulting to "help influence companies on how they do product management at the right moment" and make sure the New Zealand product community are supported
How Product Aotearoa got started, the mission behind it, and why it's important for the organisation to make some noise globally to attract speakers
The current state of Māori and Pasifika inclusion within the New Zealand tech scene, the lack of product role models in these communities, and how he's trying to help bridge the gap
The lack of product management leadership at the exec table in New Zealand, and how this has driven the trend for CPOs without product management backgrounds
The problem with management-led feature definition, and how many New Zealand companies are just have product owners managing backlogs in feature factories, with no say on strategy
Some of the ways he uses his consulting to try to sell the benefits of being product-led to sceptical company leaders to drive change
The importance of product discovery and ensuring that companies stay ahead of the curve by taking HIPPOs along for the ride
The problems with sales-led product development & services mindset, and how to drive change by using data to connect outcomes with non-product execs
And much more!
Contact Anthony
You can contact Anthony on Twitter or LinkedIn.

Maintaining a Collaborative & Inclusive Product Culture at Scale (with Anna Curzon, Chief Product Officer @ Xero)

An interview with Anna Curzon. Anna is the Chief Product Officer at Xero, with long experience in business strategy & digital transformation. She's also a member of the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation Business Advisory Council, appointed by New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern. Anna is passionate about creating a good working culture, and driving for diverse teams and working practices to support that goal.
We speak about a lot, including:
The origin story of Xero, how it came from the founder having a problem he couldn't solve, and how he started a company to solve it
How they had to fire themselves as Xero users as they scaled out of their own target market, and how they stay in touch with customers
How she moved from her career in banking into disruptive tech and how she was always "the freak in the phone book"
The parallels between her original passion for anthropology & understanding humans has translated into her day-to-day work
How she developed a passion for product management & how she approached her move into a CPO job without any direct product management experience
Whether she had any pushback when taking over a team of product managers, and the approaches she's taken to be seen as just one of the team
The importance of diversity on the teams and why people should be able to bring their true selves to work
How they've managed to keep the Xero culture going and nurture it through massive scaling and acquisitions
And much more!
Contact Anna
You can contact Anna on Twitter or LinkedIn.

Building the Future of Professional Networking (with Peter Johnston & Matt Breuer, CEO & Product Director @ Polywork)

An interview with Peter Johnston & Matt Breuer. Peter is the founder & CEO of new professional social network Polywork. Matt joined as Product Director and employee #9. They talk about the vision for Polywork, the pain points it was designed to overcome, the way they're building it as a team, and how to avoid HIPPO syndrome.
We speak about a lot, including:
The motivations behind Polywork, how it differs from other professional networking sites, and how they aim to "go beyond the job title"
The personal pain points and collaboration issues that started the idea of Polywork and how it's more than just a reaction to LinkedIn
How the dynamics work between a senior product professional & a vision-driven founder in an early stage startup and the importance of disagreeing but committing as a team
How to manage upwards as a product leader, and tackle HIPPO disagreements by doing the product management work to validate your arguments
The discovery work they did up front to turn the initial vision into a tangible product and the importance of thinking about the fundamental job to be done
Whether they are worried about being a lockdown flash in the pan and suffering a collapse in user numbers post-pandemic
The importance of maintaining focus for startups, not trying to chase every opportunity that looks good and how Peter learned this the hard way at a previous startup
And much more!
Check out Polywork
If you don't have a Polywork account already you can sign up using this VIP link and check it out.
Contact Matt & Peter
You can contact Matt at Polywork and Peter either on Polywork or Twitter.