One Knight in Product

Coming Out as Transgender at Work and How We Can All Be Better Allies (with Saielle DaSilva, Director of User Experience @ Cazoo)

About the Episode
An interview with Saielle DaSilva. Saielle is Director of User Experience at Cazoo, an online car marketplace. Saielle believes in "putting the soft back into software", is a well regarded conference speaker, and also came out as a transgender woman to her friends & colleagues a few months ago.
We speak about a lot, including:
Her work at Cazoo, helping to transform a traditional industry for the good of users & the planet, and what "putting the soft into software" really means
The start of her journey, how long she's known she's a woman and how no one chooses to be transgender for fun or because of peer pressure
Her disappointment with celebrities that she used to admire or support, how transgender people are unfairly labelled by people with zero knowledge, and how everyone should be humble enough to do the work and learn to be better
The transition roadmap - how she got ready, the step-by-step approach she took, how she was happy to find people were generally supportive and not as hateful as the mainstream media often portray
The letter she wrote to her colleagues when she came out at work, the level of detail she went into, types of inappropriate questions transgender women get and her desire to avoid living "reality TV" transgender
How troublesome the "Hugh Grant" style bumbling apology for misgendering your colleagues can be, and why you should just apologise and move on
What we can all do, both through our company culture and our own actions to ensure we foster a diverse, welcoming workplace and help our transgender colleagues feel accepted & safe
And much more!
 
Donate to Saielle's fundraiser
Saielle is undergoing further surgery to help with her transition. If you would like to donate, please check out Saielle's fundraiser.
Donate to gender diverse charities
If you want to donate to charities that support gender diverse charities, check out Mermaids in the UK, or The Trevor Project in the US.
Contact Saielle
You can reach out to Saielle on Twitter or visit her blog.

Your Product is a Joke - How to use Improv Comedy Principles in Product Management (with Amogh Sarda, Co-founder @ Eesel)

About the Episode
An interview with Amogh Sarda. Amogh is a former Atlassian and Intercom product manager turned company founder with Eesel, a company that aims to take the pain away from managing your documents. He's also a keen improv comedian, and believes there are similarities between how you create an improv skit and how you make a winning product.
We speak about a lot, including:
The story behind founding Eesel, how they're trying to make finding your own documents as easy as finding President Obama's shoe size, and whether they can save us from Slack thread hell
The pros & cons of starting a company with a founder who lives 10 hours' time difference away, and how to make it work for you
The jump from big structured product company to startup life, how you have to identify your ground truths as well as accept the layers of uncertainty that will evolve as you go and making sure you don't change everything all the time
How you should bring nuance to product principles, what this means and why sometimes it's worth spending some time in the solution space and working back to the problems
His love of improv comedy, how he got into it, and how it maps to product management practices more than you might think:
The base reality - working out where you're at and the unarguable truths of your situation
The game - the key insights or ways that you can affect the base reality
The funny scene / a great product - executing and bringing it all home
The importance of keeping it simple, not getting sidetracked or going after everything you could
And much more!
 
A brief interruption from my sponsor - me!
I'm terrible at asking for money but if you would like to throw any spare change at me to prevent me having to read out tiresome generic podcast ads, you can buy me a coffee. If not, I love you all anyway!
Contact Amogh
You can find Amogh on Twitter or check his blog, The Paperclip.

Diving into the Deep End as a Woman in Product (with Darby Maloney, Product Manager @ Divvy & Occasional Swimming Pool User)

An interview with Darby Maloney. Darby is a product manager and an avid TikToker who made an innocuous video about product management for her non tech friends and was all of a sudden centre stage for tech bros across TikTok and Twitter, getting criticised for being a woman in tech, for being a woman in a pool, for being a product manager and just about everything else.
We talk about a lot, including:
How she made the move into product management from customer support, got that tricky first product management job by putting extra hours in on top of her day job, and the importance of finding good mentors to help you along the way
The story behind that video, why she was making a video about product management with a laptop in a swimming pool in the first place, and whether she stands behind her (and her colleague's) description of product management
The three main types of criticism she got after the video went viral, how much of that was about her being a woman, how much was about her being a product manager and the crass double standards it exposed
The effect of the abuse on her mental & emotional state, and how she started to worry about her job and the credibility that she had to work so hard for
How young women in general have to work extra hard, in a way that young men don't tend to have to do, to prove that they're intelligent, reliable and good at their job
How she tried to give due credit to engineers & designers for doing the "impressive" work and it why it was disappointing to be attacked in return
The supportive comments that she got after the hate, how much this meant to her and how some people got in touch to admit wrongdoing and that they'd changed their minds
Whether she's going to double down on tech videos in future, and if she does whether she'll do the next ones in a serious looking room with lots of books behind her
And much more!
A brief interruption from my sponsor - me!
I'm terrible at asking for money but if you would like to throw any spare change at me to prevent me having to read out tiresome generic podcast ads, buy me a coffee. If not, I love you all anyway!
The infamous swimming pool video and the rebuttals
Here's the original video that started it all off.
The swimming pool video
Darby also posted two follow up videos:
Rebuttal 1 Rebuttal 2
Contact Darby
You can find Darby on TikTok or Instagram.
We're also trying to get her to spend more time on Twitter!

Mapping your Way to B2B Product Success (with Daniel Elizalde, author ”The B2B Innovator’s Map”)

An interview with Daniel Elizalde. Daniel is a Product Advisor to ClimateTech product teams and long time IoT guru. He's also recently decided to tackle some of the problems B2B product managers have getting their ideas to market. He's tackling this with his own podcast as well as new book "The B2B Innovator's Map".
We speak about a lot, including:
Why he decided to write his new book now, and how he tried to make it actionable and fresh with numerous real world examples from his own career and long experience consulting with B2B firms
How the vast majority of B2B innovations fail, how his book aims to offer a solution to this and give a process to enable B2B product leaders to get from zero to their first ten customers (and who those ten customers should be)
How his experience in Climate Tech has helped him come up with recommendations on how to frame seemingly esoteric B2B products in ways that resonate with those customers' real problems and drawing a line back to real world ROI
The six stages of the B2B Innovators' Map (Strategic Alignment, Market Discovery, User Discovery, Solution Planning, Prototyping, Early Adopters), what they involve and when to double back
The importance of cutting your losses with Early Adopters, and not succumbing to the temptation to do absolutely anything to keep a customer on board if you've proved it doesn't make sense for you in the wider context of your product
The risks of coming to the end of the process with a niche product for a limited audience, and how to make sure that the things you're building are made generic for an entire market
What comes after the B2B Innovator's Map and the importance of aligning next steps with your leadership team to take your learnings to the big time
And much more!
 
Buy "The B2B Innovator's Map"
"Most new enterprise software products fail to generate a profit. They fail not because of technical challenges, lack of funding, or market conditions. Instead, new products fail because most companies build products that don’t satisfy a market need, so customers don’t buy them. The B2B Innovator’s Map is your practical guide to taming uncertainty and discovering opportunities to develop products your customers will be eager to buy."
 
Visit The Book Website for more info.
Contact Daniel
You can find Daniel on LinkedIn or DanielElizalde.com.

Betting on the Value of Product Design at the Organisational Poker Table (with Andy Budd, Executive & Design Leadership Coach & Founder @ Clearleft)

A message from our sponsor
Do you struggle with communicating with dev teams and understanding technical terminology and concepts? On episode 98, I hosted Irene Yu, founder of Skiplevel, an on-demand training program that helps professionals and teams become more technical in just 5 weeks... All without learning to code. Learn the knowledge and skills you need to better communicate with devs and become more confident in your day-to-day role with the Skiplevel program. Go to Skiplevel.co and use code OKIP75 to get $75 off the program by 15th June, 2022.
About this Episode
An interview with Andy Budd. Andy is the founder of Clearleft, one of the UK's original design consultancies. He's now an in demand speaker, thought leader and advisor on the topics of design & entrepreneurship.
We speak about a lot, including:
The story behind his departure from day-to-day operations at Clearleft, how he believes that startup founders have a shelf life as CEO, and the importance of bringing new blood into the company as you scale
The problems with getting design practices changed in established companies and why he's focusing now on going back to basics with early stage startups and working with founders to instill good design practices from the beginning
Why it's important to get design into the startup as early as possible to apply structure and rigour, but how many founders have done more product discovery than we give them credit for
How early product managers in founder-run startups are often brought in as the equivalent of short order chefs and the folly of trying to turn McDonalds in to a Michelin starred restaurant
The common situation when early founders being people into the company to help apply process, get frustrated when everything slows down but how it's fair enough for founders to feel this since it's ultimately their business on the line
How most companies should probably do more research but how most product designers should be more pragmatic and realise that ultimately they can help to sustain the business with less-than-perfect designs
The trouble that product & design people can have getting to the top table, the things they might need to do to get there and how product & design teams are playing chess while the rest of the leadership team are playing poker
And much more!
Contact Andy
You can find Andy on Twitter or check out andybudd.com

Solving the Innovator’s Dilemma with Compassion Driven Innovation (with Nicole Reineke, VP Innovation @ Iron Mountain & Co-Author ”Compassion Driven Innovation”)

A message from our sponsor
Do you struggle with communicating with dev teams and understanding technical terminology and concepts? On episode 98, I hosted Irene Yu, founder of Skiplevel, an on-demand training program that helps professionals and teams become more technical in just 5 weeks... All without learning to code. Learn the knowledge and skills you need to better communicate with devs and become more confident in your day-to-day role with the Skiplevel program. Go to Skiplevel.co and use code OKIP75 to get $75 off the program by 15th June, 2022.
About this Episode
An interview with Nicole Reineke. Nicole is a strategist and author with 75 patents to her name. She wanted to help others unlock the innovator within them and wrote "Compassion Driven Innovation" with a cross-functional group of co-authors. The book aims to give business owners and product leaders a proven methodology to defeat the Innovator's Dilemma and get the best innovation results.
We speak about a lot, including:
Some of the early reception for her book, how people have started to adopt it and use in within their organisations, and how she wrote it very cross-functionally with 2 co-authors from different fields
Why she needed to "write the book she needed to read" after having been granted 75 patents and realising that there was a method to drive true innovation
How she started off researching a number of companies to work out the four core root causes of innovation failure: Exclusivity, Missing the most pressing challenges, Overestimated value and Unsupported moon shots
How this book tackles some of the gaps left behind by the classic Innovator's Dilemma and offers innovators a way to solve it
The tale behind the compassion driven innovation methodology, how can it help mitigate the 4 different types of innovation failure, and the 4 stages of the compassion driven innovation process: Include, Discover, Enlighten & Activate.
The importance of transparency and openness, using artifacts to ensure everyone knows why decisions are being made, and having political nous to make sure you get buy in and nip dissent in the bud
Why it's essential to be able to pivot based on new information or data throughout the innovation cycle, not falling in love with your ideas and the perils of discovery theatre
And much more!
Buy Compassion Driven Innovation
"This book is for pathfinders— product, services, business, and nonprofit managers searching for ways to reach beyond the artificial barriers that constrain innovation and make “work” harder. Inspired by real life trailblazers and their own experiences, the authors decode the secrets of achieving breakthrough success at both organizational and interpersonal levels. Learn to use their methodology with the help of checklists and detailed examples that will transform your thinking and skills."
 
Visit the book website or check it out on Amazon or Goodreads.
Contact Nicole
You can find Nicole on Twitter or LinkedIn

Moving Beyond Survival and Paying Off Your Vision Debt (with Radhika Dutt, author ”Radical Product Thinking”)

A message from our sponsor
Do you struggle with communicating with dev teams and understanding technical terminology and concepts? On episode 98, I hosted Irene Yu, founder of Skiplevel, an on-demand training program that helps professionals and teams become more technical in just 5 weeks... All without learning to code. Learn the knowledge and skills you need to better communicate with devs and become more confident in your day-to-day role with the Skiplevel program. Go to Skiplevel.co and use code OKIP75 to get $75 off the program in the next 30 days.
About this Episode
An interview with Radhika Dutt. Radhika is a product leader, consultant & author of "Radical Product Thinking". This is actually the third time I've spoken to Radhika about some of the themes from her book, and product vision in general and on this episode we go deep on vision vs survival.
We speak about a lot, including:
How the book's going international these days into various markets, how it's going down there and whether she has plan for world domination
Why she's not making the mistake of some product companies and avoiding getting seduced by expanding market share or increasing revenue by going to international markets unprepared
Why revenue can never be your North Star or part of your vision at all, and how product companies need to learn to prioritise vision against survival
The concept of vision debt where you just build stuff to survive, how much vision debt is healthy and how you're always going to have to pay it back
The importance of storytelling when trying to sell the benefits of a vision-led approach and a lesson from the different strategic approaches Marvel & DC took with their films
The idea of an ethical line in the sand which product people don't want to cross but how easy it is to accidentally cross it, not with one big mistake but many small ones
Why you should examine your personal vision and survival metrics, make sure you stay true to yourself and take an ethical stand where you can
And much more!
 
Buy Radical Product Thinking
"Iteration rules product development, but it isn't enough to produce dramatic results. This book champions Radical Product Thinking, a systematic methodology for building visionary, game-changing products."
 
Visit the book website or check it out on Amazon or Goodreads.
Listen to Radhika's other episodes
We covered some of the broader themes from Radhika's book in our first episode Episode 82 - Curing Product Diseases with a Radical Product Vision or our second episode Episode 92 - Digital Pollution & The Product Hippocratic Oath.
Contact Radhika
You can find Radhika on Twitter or LinkedIn

Inside the Mind the Product Acquisition - Why Now & What’s Next? (with James Mayes, Evangelist @ Pendo & Co-Founder @ Mind the Product)

A message from our sponsor
Do you struggle with communicating with dev teams and understanding technical terminology and concepts? On episode 98, I hosted Irene Yu, founder of Skiplevel, an on-demand training program that helps professionals and teams become more technical in just 5 weeks... All without learning to code. Learn the knowledge and skills you need to better communicate with devs and become more confident in your day-to-day role with the Skiplevel program. Go to Skiplevel.co and use code OKIP75 to get $75 off the program in the next 30 days.
About this Episode
An interview with James Mayes. James is the co-founder and former CEO of Mind the Product, one of the world's leading product communities. James came on to talk about the recent acquisition of Mind the Product by Pendo, his new role as Product Evangelist for Pendo, and some of the themes he's talking about on his travels.
We talk about a lot, including:
Why the Mind the Product team decided to sell themselves to Pendo in the first place, why they did it now and whether they've maintained editorial independence post-acquisition
Whether there was any concern that they might be doubling up or treading on each others' toes with the two sets of product conferences, podcasts and online communities
His new role as a Product Evangelist, what that means for Mind the Product and for Pendo, and whether he's an evangelist for product management as a whole or for Pendo's solutions
Whether he's the Pendo answer to John Cutler, the prospect of an arms race of content creation and whether James could beat John in an arm wrestle
Whether there's a growing need for product advocacy to help product people be successful & some of the similarities with developer relations teams
His continuing desire to support the growth of product teams and product processes but also the fundamental craft of product management
Some of the thoughts on his mind right now about scaling product teams through technology & the missed opportunities of many attempted digital transformations
And much more!
Contact James
You can email James at james@mindtheproduct.com or connect with him on Twitter or LinkedIn.